01-13-2010, 05:31 PM
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So who here besides me, was kicked off both the Attraction forums and The Lovesystems Lounge for "questioning" the product? Yes Savoy himself kicked me off due to not "being negative and asking the same questions" (which none were ever answered)....such as:
1. Why were there no demos on my bootcamp?
2. Why do these routines not work?
3. Why are there no instructors writing on the forums?
4. Why are do the instructors no write students back?
5. Why is the product sold as "guaranteed method" when he drop out rate is 95%?
6. Why do your prescriptions for shit tests not work?
And on and on....
So last May I was kicked off of both. Eventhough I paid $3000 for my bootcamp, I was kicked off the lounge too.
Tell me your stories if you can...this is one of the reasons I am on this site...
Feel the pain!....lol....
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01-13-2010, 05:43 PM
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...As the squelches would have echo'd throughout Mels, you should have kept pounding my cold dead body while holding solid eye contact with the staff. As long as you would have stayed congruent, this would have helped to build you're overall value in the venue. However, if things would have started to get a little weird, you have repeatedly shouted "MOMMY" using strong vocal projection to pump you're state, this would have bought you multiple IOIs from any onlookers.
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01-13-2010, 06:41 PM
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Same thing happened to Johnny/Lefty, he has some good horror stories about LoveSystems. Ask him about the 45 year old virgin an LS instructor forced into Johnny's set which completely creeped the girls out.
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01-13-2010, 06:56 PM
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By the end of the month I will be adding a section to the forum specifically for people's stories about what pua forums they were banned from and why.........
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01-13-2010, 08:51 PM
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LOL
Was this in May of 2008 or 2009? If it was May 2008, were you the guy who posted on the lounge how big of a rip off the infield portion was (for all the reasons you listed above) then got attacked, banned and the thread locked?
Yea, this one student kept winging me. He was Hannibal Lecter's twin brother. He would actually scare Hannibal. They wheeled him in a straight jacket!
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01-13-2010, 11:00 PM
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No, this was in May 2009 when I got kicked off the forums. I took my boot camp the previous year in 2008.
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01-13-2010, 11:01 PM
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It was a huge rip-off. HUGE!!!!!! My instructors were Dahunter and Helicase - HORRIBLE!!!!
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01-13-2010, 11:20 PM
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LOL
Who was the lead instructor? I'm guessing it was in LA
I still cant believe how disturbingly bad mine was
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01-13-2010, 11:32 PM
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why were they bad?
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01-13-2010, 11:44 PM
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are they that bad?
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01-14-2010, 12:38 AM
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Good idea.
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01-14-2010, 12:40 AM
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I like this idea as well
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01-14-2010, 08:43 AM
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The point is when you spend that kind of money, you want your value. Funny, they preach value, value, value but give no value. How ironic....
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01-14-2010, 08:44 AM
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Yeah, they are that bad!
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01-14-2010, 12:00 PM
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A few years ago I actually thought about saving money to take a bootcamp with LS, RSD or whatever. I thought to myself: "I am ok with girls now but I could be so much better, these guys have to be super amazing with women and it could be worth the investment to learn from them."
Shortly after that I joined a lair out of curiosity to see what these "Real life Casanovas" looked like. Imagined some buff model looking guys sourrounded with hot girls. What I found there were a few of the most socially inept people I have ever encountered in my life, it was like a mix of a mental hospital, a nerd chess class and a douche fest all in one.
Also once I saw a Badboy bootcamp (with Badboy himself) and a LS bootcamp (dont remember who the instructor was), and it was a FREAKSHOW. Guys who look like children molesters walking up to 18 year olds asking stupid questions, or some small bald nerdy looking japanese guys grabbing girls and saying "I want to get to know you" with a retard voice.
Honestly, if you have "normal" social skills you are already better off than all those students or instructors. Some people in the community are intelligent and make some good points, and if you find the subject is interesting go ahead and read some stuff. But dont pay them for any life trainings. If you really want to emulate guys who have good social skills you better look outside of the community, because inside the community you will not find it. Hell, I consider AFCAdam to be a normal dude with AVERAGE social skills, and in the community he is like a God. What a joke.
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01-14-2010, 12:23 PM
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Paul123
Good to see u back here mate!!
Ur posts are the best, I remember u talking about the Badboy posts, how he was fidgety and nervous when you talked to him cause you knew who he was and how Unalpha he really is, lol.
Badboy's videos are for entertainment purposes only, lol @ anyone taking him serious
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01-14-2010, 02:02 PM
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+1 for pual123
this distinction is actually important - people with normal social skills are almost always harmed by the community. they usually enter the community so 'to be more consistent' but they get sucked into the psychoness and in fact end up fucking themselves up mentally,
people with normal social skills only need to have more balls/motivation to approach more and dismiss rejections. if they improve
that they will get all the women they ever wanted. instead they go to the community and start screwing around with crazy tactics, gay philosophies, faggotry, conartistry, psychoness, and what not.
see how far the wrong way the community takes them?
on the other hand - there is the other group - people who lack social skills. the various weirdos and freaks. for these, the community can help sometimes, because it sets them on a more 'normal' path than they were before! believe it or not.
the community is like a medicine, take it when you're really ill and it could (not for sure but could) do you some good, take it when you're healthy and it will screw you up!
but then again even if you are 'ill', it has to be the right medicine for you, or it will screw you up even worse! for example if you're a really obsessive person and it stops you from getting girls, and you try mystery method, your obsessiveness will increase 10 times fold!
and the reason i despise the gurus so much is that they don't admit the above, they always say that their stuff is good for everyone no matter who you are, pure lie which harms people!
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01-14-2010, 02:15 PM
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go ahead and show as some of your "amazing" footage you talked about in another thread, you faggy troll
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01-14-2010, 02:55 PM
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haha ive met carlos (dahunter) and blair (helicase) before. they aren't that bad. they are like your average college kid who gets too drunk and then hits on girls... I would never ever pay them but i wouldn't be embarrassed to hang out with them. seriously though you should have just told lovesystems that the instructors got too drunk and you want you're money back. that's what i did
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01-14-2010, 02:57 PM
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You are dead on with that.
The reason I despise them as well is because its all about money. They will ruin people for money. Its that simple.
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01-14-2010, 03:22 PM
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I Agree Zip. What a bragging fool. Go back to masf.
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01-14-2010, 06:04 PM
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Vintage Paul!
The only people who benefit from bootcamps are the instructors, because they make good money. I will give them all credit, they have amazing marketing skills and as you've mentioned before, the seduction community is just another "branch" of the internet marketing industry. Other branches include the wealth building niche, where the guys only make money by telling others how to make money, the "woo woo" self help niche with guys like Pavlina and Tony Robbins and the penis pump/miracle health diet pills which are a scam.
These internet marketers like David D (who has 20 different names), Frank Kern, etc are at the top of the Internet Marketing pyramid and you'll see their sales letters and landing pages through the different aforementioned branches.
They cover the health-wealth-relationships umbrella, use false positivity and know
what makes the human brain tick. Their clients or more importantly, their potential clients are the PERFECT customer and find them through the PERFECT medium: The Internet. The internet marketer's job, which they are highly skilled and proficient at, include creating
in the eye's of the potential consumer so he says to himself "Wow, look at THAT! It's better than my current situation.", a
"Oh man, if I dont sign up then I am going lose out on this amazing opportunity" and make it time-sensitive. You must sign up NOW because there are ONLY 34 spots left! Their ultimate goal is to eventually make you a repeat customer. You come in, buy the ebook, buy the DVD set and ultimately attend all seminars/bootcamps. Most of these products are virtually the same, just named differently.
The truth about this Internet Marketing industry is that the only people who benefit are those at the top aka the people who are SELLING products. Like a typical pyramid, the top 5% benefit because of their knowledge, while the customer is completely ignorant and doesn't gain anything but keeps coming back because of the NLP marketing tactics.
The strangest part of the Internet Marketing industry is that there is NO tangible products!!! An ebook, DVD set, seminar, etc is just some asshat spouting useless drivel. If you have a leaky sink, you will pay someone to FIX it. If you buy a car then you get a CAR. The only thing that the Internet Marketing industry sells is NOTHING but "mindsets"
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01-14-2010, 07:13 PM
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another point on that. if the instructor has a share in the company then he makes big money if the company succeeds (e.g. tyler, savoy). but the 'regular' instructors (e.g. most LS or rsd instructors) just get a salary.
anyone knows how much they're getting per month? would be interesting.
in any case. say they make a few thousands per month, which is nice. but consider the fact they are utterly, completely and totally wasting their time as far as their career goes.
if they are such alpha and talented people as they claim to be they could have made their way in their biz world during the years that they waste as instructors. they could have paved their way to real money, i mean riches, not a few thou a month.
if they believe this is way to make big money they are idiots. sure it's better than flipping burgers but if you really think big, it's a waste of time. gets you totally and absolutely nowhere, zero growth prospects for your career.
most of them don't get girls either. even if they do have a pickup talent, they are too busy with their students to get real action. they would be much better off going out to pickup without students as far as getting girls are concerned.
furthermore their personal life suffers. this is even worse than career in porn as far as decent society looks at it.
there is no reason on earth to envy these people. bottom line they do it because they get a high from being worshiped by their students and little else.
anyone who has a dream to become an instructor (even a good instructor that is not a scam) got things all wrong. snap out of it and get a real life.
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01-14-2010, 07:19 PM
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You'd be surprised how much money some of them make
At LS, for instance, the lead instructor gets 40% of the bootcamp "payments". So, say there are 10 students paying $3,000 each, that is $30,000 for one bootcamp. Fourty percent of that is $12,000.
We'll go high end with the seminar room, for 3 days at $500 so that costs $1,500. Their plane ticket and hotel room comes out to $500. So subtract a total of $2,000 and you're down to $10,000. You need some "assistant" instructors so you stuff a few into a hotel room and buy two plane ticket for two guy outside of the city you are doing the bootcamp. That's an additional $1,000 (tops).
So, for one bootcamp they make $9,000. Multiply that by an average of 25 bootcamps for the year and thats
per year EXCLUDING 1-on-1s and seminars
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01-14-2010, 07:26 PM
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the ratio is not 1 instructor per 10 students. also if lead instructor collects all this money, all the other instructors (at the same bootcamp) get peanuts.
also instructor gets 40% of gross payment? what about company expenses (taxes etc)?
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01-14-2010, 07:28 PM
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Only the lead instructor gets paid. Others help out to become an instructor, then a lead instructor and get their airfare and hotel paid for.
For 10 students, instructor usually flies 2 in and there will be 1 or 2 already living in the city where the bootcamp is taking place
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01-14-2010, 11:07 PM
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lead instructors (at successful companies) get paid a lot of that i am sure, i was talking about the legions of 'normal' instructors.
most guys in the community envy even the small time instructor and see being a pua instructor the biggest validation that could ever exist.
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01-19-2010, 07:17 PM
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Hahaha exactly...one turd kept saying those exact words
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01-19-2010, 07:55 PM
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Bad troll
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Did you take a bootcamp? Yes? Stupid. No? Stupid, how do you want them to answer this?
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Bad Delivery, duh!
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There are! Fuck, there are special sections for instructors. All students get access to instructors feedback in private forums.
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They do! Only stupid fucks who think they are smart, type saying "I took a bootcamp" Obviously they'll check they list to write back.
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Where did you get this statistics? Obvious trollin'
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They do work with right delivery.
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Get fucking normal, get some fucking hobbies, a job and some friends that DO NOT play World of Warcraft.
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